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Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#51  Postby lphillips1 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:44 pm

Shell, without sounding like a total prick, you just answered your own question as to why the chat should stay open young lady. Re-read what you said with the last post, and that is why it should stay open. OK, I have to smoke a little,

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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#52  Postby lphillips1 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:53 pm

With close to 500 views and 50 reply's, I think the answer is obvious Shell.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#53  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:57 pm

For sure. And personally I like the fact that the overall vibe from the get-go coming from ST and wild is that the chat is excellent for these purposes, just when the frenzy has passed take a couple minutes to post about the experience...whether requester communication, new strategy, direction clarification, whatever. I think that the chat feature has helped us retain requesters that may have otherwise tried and given up on mTurk with their first batch. Thanks to quick collaboration and communication of issues and requester thoughts we have been able to show just how high the quality of work can be and how mistakes can be rectified without losing whole batches of $$. If each of us takes it upon ourselves to make that decision of post now or post later when discussing HITs in chat, we will have it covered. Consider it either a pre-work summation or a post-batch debriefing...wither way if there is a buzzing batch up, those involved in chat can lend something to the forum without having to stop in the middle of things.


You are absolutely right Rex. It has always and will continue to be that vibe. Thank you for pointing that out. I am not asking that you lose work to post in the forums. Like Rex has stated, I am only asking for "post-batch debriefing". That way members do not lose out on any money and the information is still there permanently later on.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#54  Postby myscon26 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 11:51 pm

so, it doesn't matter if the HIT is posted in the forum first before it's put in chat? I thought it did. I guess I'm confused about this, then, as far as losing money.

And, not to change the subject, but weren't we allowed to delete our posts on here not too long ago? We couldn't before, then I thought we could, but now I don't see that option anymore.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#55  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:00 am

lphillips1 wrote:Look at the views and reply's, see how bad and Idea it is to shut down chat. I certainly shifted my vote to shutting down of the chat to be a very bad idea. Lots of people love it here and care very much about what happens to this forum. Nearly 300 views and 30+ replies. the folks love it here ST.



I am glad to hear you feel that way lp but I am not really looking for a vote. I am looking for a solution. Yes, nearly 300 views and 30+ replies (when you wrote this post) which is a wonderful thing. I am very happy that people are democratically sharing their feelings and I am very happy to listen to everyone's concerns. Yet, if we cannot find a solution then I fear I have no choice. Luckily we have had many people share ideas and hopefully if we can put some of these ideas in motion there will no longer be the problems we have had in the past. As I tried to convey, I am not trying to make a threat to anyone but I think we can all agree that there really does need to be some changes made.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#56  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:06 am

becky wrote:As others have said, closing chat would be terrible. I do think that there needs to be a "time out" chair for those that are getting bent out of shape for any reason. There is no reason that there should be any argument that goes on for pages and pages in the archives. You may need to promote a person or two that could monitor the chat so you do not have to be paying attention to it every minute of every day. There are many people in this family that would be more than willing to send someone to time out if need be. Share the responsibility a little. You really do have enough on your plate. The kiddos are all here using what you have put together. Give them some chores!

Thats my two cents...not sure it helped all that much but I really think that if people are just bounced when they get bent out of shape and continue to dwell on a single comment that was made that it will solve many problems and there will not be as many problems. Im not really sure how to get people to post more in the threads. I don't really use them all that often and still have a hard time finding what thread I need to post in.


Thank you for your comments becky and just so you know there is a "time out" chair that I can send people to. However, we do need to lay some ground rules for that to be affective. Otherwise I will just get the same backlash that I did yesterday when I used it. (and for those wondering that "time out" chair was used on both parties that I thought were disruptive for fairness) With ground rules being laid (like others have suggested) the people that get bounced will not have a leg to stand on and will have to accept it.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#57  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:13 am

myscon26 wrote:Maybe there's some kind of compromise. Take a look at what the chat thread is compared to what you wanted it to be. You do not need the stress of having to babysit GROWNUPS in a freaking CHAT thread. If they can't behave, show them the door. If that makes you the bad guy, tough schitt (or you could delegate).

The two of you have enough in your lives to deal with right now, the extra stress is not doing you a lovely bit of good. It is your site, you make the rules. If there has to be "enforced civility" then so be it.


You are absolutely right with the GROWNUPS part. However, I don't think that some people even realize that they are being disruptive. It seems that there are a few steadfast people on this forum that feel they have the right to be heard and they do. But, they also need to realize how they disrupt everyone else. When it comes to a battle between two or more people it always turns ugly which is why I feel that a zero tolerance rule should be in place. Meaning that everyone who is involved needs to be bounced so they can chill out. With that though there is going to be a feeling of "I'm Right, They Were The Wrong One" which lingers on in the air far after the bouncing has been done. I will be the first to admit that I have been disruptive in the past and I am trying very hard to change that. I only wish that others would realize the same thing. Nobody is perfect and there are times when you are just going to have to bite the bullet or pay the consequences.

myscon26 wrote:so, it doesn't matter if the HIT is posted in the forum first before it's put in chat? I thought it did. I guess I'm confused about this, then, as far as losing money.

And, not to change the subject, but weren't we allowed to delete our posts on here not too long ago? We couldn't before, then I thought we could, but now I don't see that option anymore.


It has always been stated in chat and again, I realize I do need to put some things in writing so people know that. But I don't expect you to lose money by posting in the forums when you could be doing hits. However, I do expect them to be posted when your work is complete. This is especially true of surveys. I usually grab the hit, post in the forums and then complete the hit but it is not necessary.

As for the subject of deleting your post. Wild and I were under the impression that you could delete you post. However, we were informed a while ago that you could not delete if someone posted after you. We have yet to find a solution for this problem and I have stated somewhere (sorry not sure where) that if you feel you want a post deleted you can always blank it out and write "delete post" or something along those lines. If it is something that really bothers you and you want the post deleted completely you can always send me a pm and I will delete it for you. I am sorry but again, we have yet to find the solution for that.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#58  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:22 am

I really do appreciate all of the collaboration that is going on in this thread and apologize if I have missed responding to anyone. If you feel I have missed your post or your point please feel free to either post a follow up or send me a pm.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#59  Postby Wild » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:50 am

I guess I should pipe up. I honestly like the chat in some ways and don't in others. It was a real question mark when we were testing stuff out since we felt it had the potential to lessen the value of the forum as well as make things clubby. I think it has done both of those things to extents but nothing that isn't disastrously unfixable. First off people DO need to post more in the forum because chat isn't a permanent record and therefore unless you keep up w/ it daily you are missing out on current info without a way to catch up later. Some people just don't like the chat anyway and they are just as much CMB as the chat regulars.

That brings me to the second point of the clubbiness. I'm not convinced it's so much a clubby thing as a group that has hung out and gotten to know each other enough to become as familiar as family. That's not so much cliquishness as it seems but it does cause problems when disagreements come up because of being so close w/ certain people. I know I'm the bad guy in this particular and in every other area supposedly and by that Shell is guilty by association. I don't think it's fair though to place blame squarely on me and then completely avoid me and whine to others and Shell about me, and that is what happens in the family setting. It is true I am mouthy as all get out in a volatile situation but the thing is I helped create this place on a set of ideals and shortcomings that I'd experienced on other forums while working in the cloud. I helped build this place to try and fix those issues. I speak up and get angry/passionate when those ideals are being torn down and that is when I go nuclear. It was a lot of work to put into this place and honestly I only did it because I wanted a place that held fast to the ideals I had for it. Anyway, it's not really a club so much as a family and w/ that comes family issues. I will say that we all need to get better of including everyone into the family dynamic when they wander into the chat or it becomes a sore spot.

Now that I have the pulpit and can speak my mind without it being inflamed and cut off let me explain to all, those episodes that have labeled me the trouble maker. First there was me going loco in the "Good Work for Regular Turkers" thread or whatever the exact divisive name was. I'd been grumbling quietly to myself for a few weeks because sentiments from a few people were pushing people to this dividing line of workers. I held my tongue on the issue by trying to guide peeps back into the complete fold as gently as I could. That did not work as others wanted to piss and moan loudly and draw definitive lines dividing the place. That was so antithetic to the very core of CMB that ST stepped in before I could go nuclear (she knows me well). I was good w/ that until the attacks on her started in private while there was a very public
attempt going on at character assassination. I did not handle it the best but we felt people had a right to make their points as long as things remained within the rules. There were a lot of people slinging lovely in there and yet I was the one labeled the devil. Maybe it was my comment about not blaming being a loving on mental health that I never was able to finish what turned everyone against me, but as I later explained I felt that was a direct cop out and a slap to me since I myself have mental issues that
have been openly discussed in here and own my behavior whether or not it is exacerbated by any mental state.

Then we jump to another supposed blow up: Me getting pissed about the lPlay screener qual. I was angry and so were a few other people as I remember it. The whole thing was suspicious from the start because how he worded it - the workers w/ the most hits and then changed mid stride to the workers w/ the best quality. People jumped to their own conclusion that I was doubting their quality because they were selected for speed. I never said boo lovely to suggest that other than the fact that one who had the qual flat out stated they make tons of mistakes. My point was that my feathers were ruffled because I consider my quality on par w/ any others yet I was being labeled a poor worker because I hadn't done the most. I also saw what those hits meant to the regular lplay workers and the pay cut it would dish them. That was all wrong of me though supposedly and I was just being a baby cause I didn't get the qual. Well guess what - lo and behold those hits were used to screen the work for the workers at large and no one was happy....yet I was still labeled an lovely person about it.

Now w/ the current fiasco: Here is my side and why I pulled a Popeye w/ the I can stands all I can stands and I can't stands no more. People were doing hits that had been discussed earlier. I wasn't happy about it and explained rather calmly and rationally why I thought it was bad. It was my opinion and that was that or so I thought. Instead of letting it die I was getting heckled by a few by them changing right back to the subject of how great those hits were and how much you making now blah blah blah, while I was trying to help out a requester make his hits better for a lovely of other workers that usually get the shaft around here (nonmasters). Any time I brought them up it was pissing and moaning or right back to the wonderful .02 hits because those suck. That was fine and I tried brushing that off like the "Thanks Christ" comment earlier. Evidently though it wasn't being let go so I made my comment that we might as well give up talking to the requester because y'all were going to be pissed one way or another. That's when those 02 were brought up yet again and thrown in my face and by that point I had had it. I never flat called anyone a bad worker I only stated a very valid observation that I've been making for quite some time now: That was it fair for folks to talk lovely about the quality of work of unknown mtfers because they do hits fast when folks here do the exact same thing? Y'all made your own inferences there and the only difference is that when y'all slag others they aren't around to defend themselves and when I compared behavior you all were here to defend yourselves.

Anyway, that's my three sins I suppose, and the evidence being thrown at ST for why I'm the devil. If you look at it from a rational view I think the evidence is there for a valid reason why I flipped each time. No, I do not flip out gracefully, but I've always worn my heart on the sleeve and that's just me. The thing is though each and every instance was something I saw that was a direct thumb in the eye of a founding reason of this forum and that is a big no no w/ me and as co-creator I have a duty to protect the foundations CMB was created on. I can say w/ certainty that divisiveness, selfishness and general lovely stirring were nowhere on the list of inclusions to those foundations and the vibe in chat has turned that was more and more.

So where does this leave us? Well first I AM going to take my ball and go home from the chat. It seems that's what folks want and this place is more the community's now than it is mine. I can deal w/ that as long as the lovely from the examples above stops. That should make folks happier in the present and in the future I will add the code to ignore individuals from chat. The forum will also stop having to be neglected so much. That is the main existence for this site and I think the real money is actually in there rather than in chat (you just have to put effort into it). As for mods to help out, I really don't think that is needed since we don't like things to be censored. It's also a lot of pressure for a mod to act alone when the group is absent. It causes big problems when any singular action is taken in any collaborative endeavor and that's not a road worth throwing friendships away on.

As always these things are not entirely up to me but I do have a say so I thought I'd add my :2cents: Hopefully thing get better w/ my chat absence and little needs to change. I am going to say though that if people have an issue or problem w/ me in any way I'd appreciate a direct message about it from now on. Shell doesn't control me 100% yet and though I get grumpy w/ her from time to time no amount of loving to her about me will convince her she's sleeping w/ such an evil man :lol:
...nothing wise here :delete:
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#60  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:35 am

Shy, I am so sorry I missed replying to your post. I read it when you posted but just missed it in my reply time.

Shy (Soft Kitty) wrote:The chat is the main reason I am here. Yes, the message boards are nice, but with the way chat is now, we have a pretty small group that is usually in there. I like that, family like.


I understand that most people that use the chat like the chat and feel it would be a bad thing. However, if the chat is the only thing people use then why have the forums at all? Trust me, I like the chat too and really don't want to close it but I am at my wits ends and am asking for help. Luckily there have been some great comments in here that we can hopefully work with.

I'm not usually quick enough to find new hits for everyone to try. Heck, after almost a year of turking, I'm still not sure sometimes if hits are good or not, and I'm to anxious to take the risk if they turn out bad for people. So, when I do find something to contribute, its usually letting someone know that hits we are all familiar with have just gone up. I fully understand the idea of contributing to the forums, which I try very hard to do. But I don't normally put up new threads because I am either not finding something new, or the big one, by the time I would look up the thread and add that more hits have gone up, the hits would be gone and I would have gotten none of them. I guess that is a bit selfish of me, but with the way the competition is anymore, I have to be a bit.


You should never feel bad about sharing hits because you feel they may turn out bad. We all post bad hits from time to time but by actually posting them you give others a chance to decide for themselves. Also, you should never feel you are selfish for wanting to work. I have stated before and I guess I should put it in writing. I am not expecting anyone to lose out on work to make a post. However, when the work is done I would appreciate a posting so that other people could know about the hit for the future.

I get the feeling this isn't really helping. But here is my thought. Your son seems to be pretty computer savvy from what little I've seen of him. Is there anyway to put people on a "time out" from chat? That way the rest of us don't get caught up in and have to deal with the drama. If we are all very much aware this could happen if things get out of hand, than there is no surprise when it happens. I'm sure you will need more help moding the chat room with that. But the immediate and fast would be the "temp time out" and then you or a mediator would figure out the situation.


Just fyi if you haven't read this in my other post already. Wild had already made the "time out" chair for me quite a while ago and I used it yesterday for the first time. But that seemed to make things worse as I was then the bad guy. That was the main reason for this thread. Trying to figure out what we can do to stop the :crap: without backlash. Something cut and dry.

Short of that, I know you don't need the stress! And I know we are all not perfect all of the time. But if you do need to reach out and get support, I think you have found that our :facepalm2: (Oh I hate to put it this way, but I'm not sure how else to do it) small group of regulars are hear to listen and support!


I think everyone can be of assistance in this case and I agree, I hate to think that we have a "small group of regulars" I wish we could all think of it as more of one big group.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#61  Postby aro68 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:22 pm

I, for one, say keep the Chat open.
Is it the majority of the time where stress is felt/experienced in there --- or a minority of the time?
I have rarely if ever seen/experienced any true negativity in there and personally, you guys are doing all right as far as running/managing CMB goes.
It's not just that their are friendly helpful tips being shared in chat for me, it kind of helps me keep my momentum up as far as working goes on certain days. It feels like it keeps me glued to my chair when I would rather get up and watch TV. It helps me stay productive!! So, there's my 2 cents :) xx
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#62  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Thu Jan 31, 2013 5:38 pm

aro68 wrote:I, for one, say keep the Chat open.
Is it the majority of the time where stress is felt/experienced in there --- or a minority of the time?
I have rarely if ever seen/experienced any true negativity in there and personally, you guys are doing all right as far as running/managing CMB goes.
It's not just that their are friendly helpful tips being shared in chat for me, it kind of helps me keep my momentum up as far as working goes on certain days. It feels like it keeps me glued to my chair when I would rather get up and watch TV. It helps me stay productive!! So, there's my 2 cents :) xx


It seems to be the majority of the stress does come from the chat which is why this thread came about. Hopefully with a new "chat rules" page (I hate to use the word rules)coming things will get a bit better and we will be able to keep it.

As for it keeping you glued to your chair and motivating you I am very happy to hear it. Keep that productivity u any way you can! :yay:
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#63  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Fri Feb 01, 2013 3:12 pm

I have been debating about what is best for CMB as a whole for the past few days. This is not an easy aspect for any of us I don't think so hope I the majority of members can understand. Sure, there may be a few who cannot or will not understand however, as an admin I have to think about the site as a whole.

"In order to keep this a happy place there will be no personal attacks allowed. However, civil debating in the proper area will be encouraged." Has always been a rule on the forums as a whole but evidently this is something I have to take to a different level of explanation since there are those who don't seem to understand what "civil debating" or "personal attacks" involve. I will be adding the following to the rule above for the forum as a whole to hopefully avoid any future drama in both.

In order to keep this a happy place there will be no personal attacks allowed. However, civil debating in the proper area will be encouraged. This includes but is not limited to:

a. direct name calling
b. threats of any kind
c. mob mentality
d. any comments that admins/mods deem to interrupt the natural flow of chat/forums no matter being the start of or in retaliation too

So please use common sense. Any members found to be included in the above actions will be warned once. If these warnings are not heeded there will be a zero tolerance approach taken and all involved will be bounced from chat or the forums.

The chat will remain open as long as these simple rules are followed and abided by. So with that I will say, please think before you speak and choose your words wisely.

I would also like to address the fact that a few people here are not happy with the admins on this site. The only thing I can say to that is that if you have an issue with either one of us you have the ability to contact us and voice your concerns. I have always tried to let it be known that we are open to suggestions. However, it seems that some people would rather voice their concerns in public or to each other instead of addressing the issue itself. I will say that this mentality is not doing any good. I really don't want to seem like the nasty, dominant, dictator here but we are co-owners of this site and neither ThatGuy-Wild nor I are going anywhere. Granted, without our members this site would not be here and I appreciate that very much. However, if we leave (like it seems some of you want) the site will not be here either. I can accept the fact that there are going to be times that members, mods and admins alike are going to make mistakes. However, I will not accept the mob mentality that has been shown in the past. If you have an issue with either one of us please contact us directly. As with the the rule above, direct personal attacks will not be tolerated no matter if they are against members, mods or admins.

Concerning the issue of information shared in the chat that should also be shared in the forums. I have also added this wording to the bottom of the chat to hopefully make sure that all pertinent information gets added to the threads for future reference. To avoid a large "rule" taking up the bottom of the chat box I would hope the simplicity of the statement below will be enough to explain what is expected of us all.

"For the good of the community, posting links, requester communications, questions or any other pertinent hit information in the chat area will not be allowed UNLESS they are also posted in the proper forum area. Thank you."

If anyone has any other things they think should be added to the lists above I am very open and willing to listen to suggestions.

Finally, we are still working on the "ignore" button for the chat and if any of you have the knowledge of an easy quick fix to add that button to the set up we have I would appreciate it. However, until then if you feel you cannot ignore one individual and still communicate with the rest of the pack there is always the option of hitting the "X" at the top of your browser that will close the page.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#64  Postby Wild » Sat Feb 02, 2013 12:50 pm

Adding someone to your "Foe" list in your user control panel will now also block them in chat.
...nothing wise here :delete:
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#65  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:28 pm

ThatGuy - Wild wrote:Adding someone to your "Foe" list in your user control panel will now also block them in chat.


Just to add a bit of information to the above. Using the ignore feature in your "friends/foes" list on your user control panel will enable you to ignore all the post made by those individuals. You will no longer see chat post or forum post. However, mods and admins cannot be added to that list. :no:
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#66  Postby myscon26 » Sat Feb 02, 2013 2:21 pm

Who are the moderators on here?
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#67  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:28 pm

myscon26 wrote:Who are the moderators on here?



There are not any right now myscon but I put the wording in there for future reference hun. :sorry:
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#68  Postby jckruth » Mon Oct 07, 2013 5:44 pm

Maybe I am wrong, but it appears as if the chat is now closed. I was on last week and it was up and running, but I can't find a way to get to it now. Am I going about it wrong or what?
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#69  Postby Olive Green » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:33 pm

You can click on Portal or Mini Chat at the top of the page. If that doesn't work, one of the site owners will have to check to see what the problem might be.
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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#70  Postby ThatGirl - ST » Mon Oct 07, 2013 6:41 pm

The chat was only opened last week to accommodate a new requester and their hits. Normally the chat is only open to active users. viewtopic.php?f=52&t=334#p20154

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Re: Closing Chat - Any Suggestions?

Post Number:#71  Postby jckruth » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:16 pm

Okay. Thanks
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